| The Ancient Way - Eastern Orthodox The forum for Eastern Orthodox churches (such as Greek, Russian, Antiochian, etc). |
| |  | Lost in the Cosmos
     
 | ? | Join Date: 30th November 2010
Posts: 897
Blessings: 40,050 Reps: 129,915,489,316,319,760 (power: 129,915,489,316,322) |
| | How does an Orthodox Christian interpret these quotes about the Bishop of Rome?
"We exhort you, honorable brother, to submit yourself in all things to what has been written by the blessed Bishop of Rome, because St. Peter, who lives and presides in his see, gives the true faith to those who seek it. For our part, for the sake of peace and the good of the faith, we cannot judge questions of doctrine without the consent of the Bishop of Rome." Bishop St. Peter Chrysologus of Ravenna (Doctor of Homilies; July 30) says in 449 [Letter 25:2 to the Priest Eutyches in PL 54:742D-743A]Is he speaking solely to a priest under the jurisdiction of Rome that is obliged to obey his bishop? "Therefore if a man does not want to be, or to be called, a heretic, let him not strive to please this or that man ... but let him hasten before all things to be in communion with the Roman See. If he be in communion with it, he should be acknowledged by all and everywhere as faithful and orthodox. He speaks in vain who tries to persuade me of the orthodoxy of those who, like himself, refuse obedience to his Holiness the Pope of the most holy Church of Rome: that is to the Apostolic See." St. Maximus the Confessor of Constantinople (August 13) says [Excerpt from Letter to Peter in PG 91:144BC]: This one seems tough.
__________________
Out of the darkness of my life, so much frustrated, I put before you the one great thing to love on earth: the Blessed Sacrament... There you will find romance, glory, honour, fidelity, and the true way of all your loves on earth, and more than that: Death.-J.R.R. Tolkien |
| |  | Regular Member
30   
| ? | Join Date: 26th January 2007
Posts: 9,557
Blessings: 2,140,682 Reps: 975,381,246,770,378,880 (power: 975,381,246,770,394) |
| | well, in both, neither say that Rome is the infallible head of the Church, and they were written before the schism. Rome, being the cultural head and a way from many of the early heresies, had a lot of appeals to Rome because Rome, in a lot of cases was correct in her theology, and we submit to those right believing bishops. and since Rome was the first among equals, he would have been the one to appeal especially if those were written to folks under Roman jurisdiction. __________________
"Everyone capable of thanksgiving is capable of joy and eternal salvation." -Fr. Alexander Schmemann"The time of the end, though it seems to be near, we do not know. Let us then struggle while it is still day, with the time and the weapons which our All-merciful God has given us!" -Fr. Seraphim Rose |
| | | Lost in the Cosmos
| ? | Join Date: 30th November 2010
Posts: 897
Blessings: 40,050 Reps: 129,915,489,316,319,760 (power: 129,915,489,316,322) |
| Originally Posted by ArmyMatt  well, in both, neither say that Rome is the infallible head of the Church, and they were written before the schism. Rome, being the cultural head and a way from many of the early heresies, had a lot of appeals to Rome because Rome, in a lot of cases was correct in her theology, and we submit to those right believing bishops. and since Rome was the first among equals, he would have been the one to appeal especially if those were written to folks under Roman jurisdiction. It seems to me like St. Maximus is speaking to a lot more than just a primacy of honor, and dismissing it as such seems almost akin to the atheist who refuses to acknowledge the existence of God unless he is offered irrefutable proof. Is that what it would take for an Orthodox Christian to admit Rome is right (if they are right, of course) about papal supremacy? Irrefutable proof?
__________________
Out of the darkness of my life, so much frustrated, I put before you the one great thing to love on earth: the Blessed Sacrament... There you will find romance, glory, honour, fidelity, and the true way of all your loves on earth, and more than that: Death.-J.R.R. Tolkien |
| | | Regular Member
30
| ? | Join Date: 26th January 2007
Posts: 9,557
Blessings: 2,140,682 Reps: 975,381,246,770,378,880 (power: 975,381,246,770,394) |
| | no, because the Church has always been conciliar (look at Acts), so you would have to see this all over the place. you would have to see this at the Councils (you don't). and, even then, you have to know who these guys are talking to and why. it's just as bad to sola scriptura a Church Father. I would also point out that the Oriental Orthodox and the Syriac Church of the East both left the Church before the schism. so one would think that if the Roman claim about the Pope to be accurate, that they would have a similar organization, and they don't. their bishops, at least the OO, are organized like the EO. __________________
"Everyone capable of thanksgiving is capable of joy and eternal salvation." -Fr. Alexander Schmemann"The time of the end, though it seems to be near, we do not know. Let us then struggle while it is still day, with the time and the weapons which our All-merciful God has given us!" -Fr. Seraphim Rose |
| | | Veteran
39 
| ? | Join Date: 14th May 2006 Location: New York
Posts: 4,162
Blessings: 1,146,539 Reps: 222,303,516,820,587,936 (power: 222,303,516,820,599) |
| "Therefore if a man does not want to be, or to be called, a heretic, let him not strive to please this or that man ... but let him hasten before all things to be in communion with the Roman See. If he be in communion with it, he should be acknowledged by all and everywhere as faithful and orthodox. He speaks in vain who tries to persuade me of the orthodoxy of those who, like himself, refuse obedience to his Holiness the Pope of the most holy Church of Rome: that is to the Apostolic See." St. Maximus the Confessor of Constantinople (August 13) says [Excerpt from Letter to Peter in PG 91:144BC]:This one seems tough. Nope, not tough at all. This proves that no bishop is fallible. At the time St Maximos wrote this letter, the east was immersed in the monothelete controversy. The emperor pushing for a compromise that could reunite the Orthodox with the non-chalcedonians was championing the monothelete formula with support from many eastern bishops. The bishop of Rome just like St. Maximos opposed the monothelete heresy. When St Maximos was confronted that pope Vitalian entered communion with the east and was going to concelebrate with the Patriarch of Constantinople, the saint changed his tune. In his final letter to his spiritual child Anastasius the saint responded to the ridicule he was subject to by his opponents: "What church do you belong to? Constantinople? Rome? Antioch? Alexandria? Jerusalem? See all of them are united, together with the provinces subject to them"....The saint replied, "The God of all pronounced that the catholic church was the correct and saving confession of the faith in Him, when he called Peter blessed because of the terms in which he made a proper confession of Him....
"If even the whole universe should begin to commune with the Patriarch, I will not commune with him. For I know from the writings of the holy Apostle Paul that the Holy Spirit will give over to anathema even the angels, if they should begin to preach any other gospel, introducing anything new." As you can see we are all Peter's if we hold onto the correct faith, as St Maximos says above. Ironically the 6th Ecumenical council held a few years later condemned Pope Honorius as a monothelete heretic. This council commanded that all the monothelete heretics be dropped from the diptychs. And only exalted St Sophronios of Jerusalem as the champion of Orthodoxy with the command that his name should be entered in every church's diptych as he was the sole patriarch to teach the correct faith on the two wills. Thus according to this council it was Jerusalem alone who did not waiver.
Last edited by buzuxi02; 14th July 2013 at 04:05 AM.
|
| | | | Originally Posted by truthseeker32 "We exhort you, honorable brother, to submit yourself in all things to what has been written by the blessed Bishop of Rome, because St. Peter, who lives and presides in his see, gives the true faith to those who seek it. For our part, for the sake of peace and the good of the faith, we cannot judge questions of doctrine without the consent of the Bishop of Rome." Bishop St. Peter Chrysologus of Ravenna (Doctor of Homilies; July 30) says in 449 [Letter 25:2 to the Priest Eutyches in PL 54:742D-743A]Is he speaking solely to a priest under the jurisdiction of Rome that is obliged to obey his bishop? "Therefore if a man does not want to be, or to be called, a heretic, let him not strive to please this or that man ... but let him hasten before all things to be in communion with the Roman See. If he be in communion with it, he should be acknowledged by all and everywhere as faithful and orthodox. He speaks in vain who tries to persuade me of the orthodoxy of those who, like himself, refuse obedience to his Holiness the Pope of the most holy Church of Rome: that is to the Apostolic See." St. Maximus the Confessor of Constantinople (August 13) says [Excerpt from Letter to Peter in PG 91:144BC]: This one seems tough.
They should not impose extra-requirements for obedience when such and such is not realistic or doesn't exist. You need to be relieved from your duty and requirements for obedience, if save, already be a follower of Christ. |
| |  | Pax Vobis
  
| ? | Join Date: 3rd June 2012
Posts: 531
Blessings: 9,388 Reps: 16,385,113,299,330,124 (power: 16,385,113,299,332) |
| Originally Posted by ArmyMatt no, because the Church has always been conciliar (look at Acts), so you would have to see this all over the place. you would have to see this at the Councils (you don't). and, even then, you have to know who these guys are talking to and why. it's just as bad to sola scriptura a Church Father.I would also point out that the Oriental Orthodox and the Syriac Church of the East both left the Church before the schism. so one would think that if the Roman claim about the Pope to be accurate, that they would have a similar organization, and they don't. their bishops, at least the OO, are organized like the EO. The Copts have a Pope, but then again he may be just as equal as all the other Orthodox Bishops in the Oriental Church, correct? __________________
Tiber Swim Team of 2013!Left Protestantism - Discovered the Early Church - Now Roman Catholic |
| | | Regular Member
30
| ? | Join Date: 26th January 2007
Posts: 9,557
Blessings: 2,140,682 Reps: 975,381,246,770,378,880 (power: 975,381,246,770,394) |
| Originally Posted by RomanRite The Copts have a Pope, but then again he may be just as equal as all the other Orthodox Bishops in the Oriental Church, correct? yeah, that is just a title, like the EO Patriarch of Alexandria (I think) is called the Pope as well in his official title. but neither are viewed as infallible or having universal jurisdiction. __________________
"Everyone capable of thanksgiving is capable of joy and eternal salvation." -Fr. Alexander Schmemann"The time of the end, though it seems to be near, we do not know. Let us then struggle while it is still day, with the time and the weapons which our All-merciful God has given us!" -Fr. Seraphim Rose |
| | | Pax Vobis
| ? | Join Date: 3rd June 2012
Posts: 531
Blessings: 9,388 Reps: 16,385,113,299,330,124 (power: 16,385,113,299,332) |
| Originally Posted by ArmyMatt yeah, that is just a title, like the EO Patriarch of Alexandria (I think) is called the Pope as well in his official title. but neither are viewed as infallible or having universal jurisdiction. That's interesting. The EO Bishops only have authority over their own Jurisdiction corect? __________________
Tiber Swim Team of 2013!Left Protestantism - Discovered the Early Church - Now Roman Catholic |
| | | Regular Member
30
| ? | Join Date: 26th January 2007
Posts: 9,557
Blessings: 2,140,682 Reps: 975,381,246,770,378,880 (power: 975,381,246,770,394) |
| Originally Posted by RomanRite That's interesting. The EO Bishops only have authority over their own Jurisdiction corect? yep __________________
"Everyone capable of thanksgiving is capable of joy and eternal salvation." -Fr. Alexander Schmemann"The time of the end, though it seems to be near, we do not know. Let us then struggle while it is still day, with the time and the weapons which our All-merciful God has given us!" -Fr. Seraphim Rose |
| ? | | Source: http://www.christianforums.com/t7759171/
Gabby Olympic Gymnast Robyn Lawley Gore Vidal mlb trade rumors Misty May And Kerri Walsh Jake Dalton London 2012 field hockey
